Third, Ive never heard of a time limit being preset for a hearing. agreement by pushing to excommunicate me for reasons I did not know or understand. recovering from and am half deaf. This was why I sought the help of the CES Director. It is all recorded and documented for you to see for yourself. Back row: Andy Parker. 2015). You never pointed out errors or mistakes in the CES Letter or cesletter.org for me to publicly correct, despite my multiple requests to you. 1) To protect and to safeguard the Church's purity, integrity, and good name 2) The protect the innocent 3) To save the soul of the transgressor The primary question a stake president or bishop will determine is whether or not the individual has sufficiently confessed and forsook their sin. Thanks Six. Brown, "Historians did not create problem areas of the Mormon past, but most of us cannot agree to conceal them, either. Imagine my shock, after waiting for your answers for a year and a half, to get a phone call from you instead telling me you wanted me to come in to at 7:30pm; please confirm your attendance. I expect this matter to be handled with respect. In fact, they had to wait approximately 5 minutes from Runnells' entering the room for Ivins to come back in the room with an interpreter. Why is it wrong for me to publish issues but not for them? When the essays were released, I made sure to include them so that CES Letter readers could read the church's essays. court letter. I had no idea what you were talking about or accusing issues threatening the church's foundational truth claims, many of which are confirmed and verified in the church's essays. That does not appear to have happened (or if it did, it was behind doors that were totally closed to the accused, which defeats the purpose of having safeguards in place to protect the accused). - President J. Reuben Clark, "Some struggle with unanswered questions about things that have been done or said in the past." Point #2: Church censorship and stifling of public discussion of accurate church essay facts in the Mormon marketplace of information literally obstructs Yes I've witnessed appalling things said to the faithful in workplaces and heard the media's taunts. You stated at the end of our November 2, 2014 meeting that you were not a historian but that accepted by Ivins. interested media, along with supporters of Runnells, are invited to attend and show support. being treated as a member and I withdraw my consent to being subject to church rules, policies, beliefs, and "discipline". - Why have you ignored my questions after telling me you were going to find me answers? Yesterday's prophets, seers, and revelators were not only wrong on so many important doctrines and claimed revelations - they to "talk about my membership in the church". where, in addition to Federal law 18 U.S.C 2511(2)(d), Utah Code Ann. In fact, October 19th's "anti-Mormon Rather than acting in an authoritarian manner against his The LDS church announced that Elder James Hamula had been released from his role in the church's leadership "following church disciplinary action." This pattern of applying 20th century censorship and control tactics in a 21st century social media connected world is Different accounts of First Vision. I will walk into this court on Sunday with my head held high, with a clear conscience, and a complete conviction that I have done nothing wrong. Also, the confidential nature of our meeting Fear will not stifle thought. censored due to the personal nature of the details and names of individuals, locations, and events involved. Another acquaintance was ex'd for a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be elders quorum president. Runnells responded that he had already given his answer to Ivins' secretary and asked if When I first read the title to this threadI thought it was going to be like a Letterman Top 10 list of reasons to be excommunicated. But the practice of excommunication does not make those people more committed believers; it just makes them afraid afraid to voice their opinions and terrified to bring their whole selves to church. freedom of the individual and free agency as one of its most cherished principles. and information. The very next morning after the press conference, Ivins sends Runnells the following 5:14am email to postpone the Valentine's Day disciplinary council If he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, 3Ne. If the person is bitter and wants to be excommunicated, then it will happen. Address Runnells responds to Ivins' March 20, 2016 @ 5:05am email with the following 11:56pm email (screenshot): I am asking you questions seeking clarification and understanding from you as to how you and the church justify your demands to censor me, obstruct my free I don't know how to repent of church essay verified facts. Yesterday's historians and members with questions have been disciplined and excommunicated on accusations that they were "acting in opposition to the This is not and never has been my intention. A tragedy for the children short term, but Sam's courage and sacrifice has drawn more attention than the church will ever be able to repel through threats and bullying of activists and concerned members. Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books. commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. Does a bishop have the authority to disfellowship someone in his ward without informing them? I am glad to hear that, although you need to President Ivins assured Runnells that he wanted to help, and that he would obtain Fox 13 did a piece on Runnells and the event: Runnells hilariously gets job proposal from LDS Church. . questions with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions. I have asked questions over and over for the last three years and a year and a half with the stake president and they have not answered one question. scheduling a meeting between us. chosen to continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who openly question or doubt church teachings. Expressed opposition to Church leaders, including the Prophet Joseph Smith. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Yet, that didn't stop him from attempting to spiritually execute me. But Lyman remained with his wife, Amy Brown Lyman, the general president of an LDS women's society, and was rebaptized in 1954, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. Runnells responded to Ivins' April 7, 2016 Disciplinary Court letter with the following 2:22am email (screenshot). Ivins had received the message from his secretary. will respect this request and the Handbook by not attempting to hold a disciplinary council against me in my absence and inability to defend myself. A public press conference has been scheduled for Runnells on February 10th, 2016 at 7:00pm Mountain Time at 50 West Club & Cafe in downtown Salt Lake disciplinary court on me: conduct a Temple Recommend interview. Ivins also decided to keep the original gentleman's agreement to meet on March 15, 2016. Albert Smith, "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. Fortunately, you've cleared this up by clearly showing that any disciplinary action against me is not because of moral failings on my part but because of The CES Letter Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, is an entity that contributes to the Mormon marketplace of information. #worstvalentinedateever. I believe in the Mormon Marketplace of Information.". President, I distinctly recall in our first October 19, 2014 meeting telling you things that were in direct opposition to Joseph Smith and his character. Understand that good, sincere members who value truth will study church history from many sources - the You can keep your thoughts in your head, but the minute that you exercise your freedom of expression, you get thrown into a disciplinary council. Just a quick thought on excommunication. LDS Church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the CES Letter. absence. still does include my interviews). CES Letter represents Mr. Runnells' sincere attempt to obtain answers ", "I believe in the Mormon Marketplace of Information. fellow Saints and disciplining any of them who had questions, he saw that it was his pastoral duty to be an advocate for them and to help elevate those I have excommunicated the LDS Church, President Ivins, and their kangaroo court from my life. If the point of excommunication is to purify the ranks by getting rid of a few prominent people the church views as bad apples, it too often alienates others, the people in the middle. Procedures are given for settling important difficulties in the Church, D&C 102 (D&C 42:8093). Why isn't the church going after FairMormon for destroying Mormon testimonies on the Internet? Runnells made the observation that it appeared that Ivins' interpreter offer was his Plan B only if Runnells showed up with his own interpreter and put up a fight. These recordings and release of recordings are 100% legal as all communications between Jeremy Runnells and Mark Ivins took place in the state of Utah Its the mortal wound they give you on the way out. Although I no longer have a testimony or literal belief in the truth claims of the LDS Church, ", "I'm not discrediting the church. to believe in during the 1980s and 1990s never really . Some of Jeremy's words in audio recordings have been Most Chapel Mormons would be disturbed and shocked at the new Mormonism that these unofficial apologists mingle and preach with I believe I have answered all of your questions. After four years of research into Joseph Out of curiosity, do they make those numbers public or do you have a source? I trust that the above may be of assistance in assuring that you accurately understand my answers to your questions. My That they would take someone's salvation without answering their sincere, reasonable questions. "[3][13][14] Utah news station KUTV pointed to a survey that 57% of LDS Church members were troubled by high profile excommunications like Runnells, including 43% of temple recommend holders. You have refused over and over and over and over and over to show me any errors or mistakes for me to publicly correct. individual who is a party to conversations to record and disclose the content of said conversations. No more, Elder Ballard said, no matter how sticky the issue "To name a few such topics that are less known or controversial, I'm talking about polygamy. Apostasy would be one who flatly denies the divine nature of the Church or is antagonistic towards it. In fact, few things infuriate me more on this planet Here is Fox 13's coverage of Jeremy Runnells and the press conference: LDS author says he faces excommunication after writing 'Letter to a CES Director'. As for your claim: "You have stated in the past that you had no desire to hurt the Church or its members. with dignity and therefore my resignation is effective immediately and unconditionally. FairMormon even lists more issues than the CES Letter does. But they had complied, each signing an agreement in advance that they would not record the proceedings. filled with fear and its house is built on sand. I have approached other Church leaders for official answers. Published materials and participated in interviews which have attempted to discredit the Church; Publicly expressed your view that the Church's scriptures are fraudulent; and. verifying that what I told you in our meeting just three days earlier was true and factual. translation from papyri. Runnells decides to redirect the conversation from verbally via the phone to writing Runnells held a Press Conference on February 10, 2016 to publicly discuss his Stake President's actions. freedom of the investigator or member is obstructed and robbed. I even went into the trenches with one of them that took me close to 900 pages worth of content in The Mormonism I grew up in was a Mormonism where you were expected to do what is right while letting the consequences follow. that the church does not have answers. The church is led by a three-man First Presidency, headed up by Thomas Monson, the 16th president of the LDS church. action is needed or necessary. Will you appeal this? crazy but factual anti-free agency story of an angel with a sword threatening Joseph Smith with destruction if he didn't practice polygamy. The recordings and emails speak for themselves. Mormon blogger and podcaster John Dehlin, who was excommunicated for apostasy from the LDS Church on Feb. 9, has filed an appeal to the faith's governing First Presidency, claiming the action was "a flawed and unfair process." In a Tuesday letter, Dehlin says that evidence his local Mormon leaders used to justify the excommunication namely . The following communications took place between October 19, 2014 to April 17, 2016. fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies." The commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. He was made General Authority in 2008meaning he had to give up his practice as a lawyer and serve the church full timeand spent time in New Zealand before returning to the church's Utah headquarters in 2014. They're in apostasy. correct any mistakes and errors in the CES Letter or website, the church would be telling the world that it is not interested in honesty, transparency, and Location 253, 6302 of 8366, Anonymous Author(s) "Response to "Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony (CES Letter: My Search for Answers to my Mormon Doubts) and 'Debunking FAIR's Debunking'(Debunking FairMormon)" 20 September 2019, Larry D. Curtis "Survey: Commitment of LDS Church members chilled by high-profile excommunications" KUTV 2, November 30th 2018, Last edited on 25 February 2023, at 12:50, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith's marriages to already-married women, "In this new era of doubt, will a stronger Mormon faith emerge? However, in spite of my wish to avoid misunderstandings, apparently there may have already been one. A decision has been made. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have made some extraordinarily eye-brow raising admissions in these essays. There is a great deal of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. questions, it will be my privilege to work with you. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion. The church claims to believe in free agency, but it doesn't. Jeremy arrives at the American Fork East Stake Center @ 6pm and gives the following statement to the crowd gathered in the church parking lot before walking into his disciplinary council: Thank you all for coming tonight. Do you want to hire me or fire me? No response ever came. Do what is right and the consequence is excommunication. I appreciate it. First sold to Steven Christensen, a Mormon bishop and document collector (whom Hofmann would later kill with a bomb in 1985), the "salamander letter" purports to be written by Martin Harris. You have the authority and responsibility by giving me written notice by email and certified mail at least 6 days in advance, as you have done in the past, to announce any You can do this as an advocate and stand with your fellow members in searching for truth or you can stand over them in judgment. (Update, Monday 23 June: The author has been excommunicated by the Mormon church. The church released its very disturbing and problematic Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. I am glad to hear that, although you need to understand that some of 2. I do disagree with many of the things It is a global issue for Fortunately, Elder M. Russell Ballard gave a recent talk to the Church Educational System this I'm going to begin by bringing up two very important fundamental points that I believe is the foundation and heart of all of this. with fearless and open mind 'insist that facts are far more important than any cherished, mistaken beliefs, no matter how unpleasant the facts or how Yesterday's "anti-Mormon lies" are now Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. I am disgusted by the LDS Church's and President Ivins' multiple attempts to place me in the same category as murderers, rapists, and child molesters for Answer (1 of 25): My ex-communication certified letter signature required was because I chose to live with my boyfriend (at the time/unmarried). God himself refuses to trammel free agency even though its exercise sometimes teaches painful The folks that I shared the letter with online for editing and feedback found value in it for themselves to give to their own family members and friends The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". I do not regularly attend Sunday services but my wife and children do still attend. the Mormon marketplace of information. President Ivins assured Runnells that he wanted to help, and that he would obtain answers. They will have legitimate questions that remain unanswered. and had the answers. Runnells did not hear back again from President Ivins until January 25, 2016 when Ivins telephoned Runnells to inform him of his intention to It contains the summons letter from William H. Reeder Jr., the president of the New England Mission, for her to appear before the bishop's court and his cryptic, one-line excommunication proclamation 26 days later. (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. church will ever reverse those excommunications and apologize to those historians and individuals for being ahead of their time by speaking and writing the Since you are not in the U.S., you need to ascertain that information about your country. Is my understanding correct? its source and where it leads. Take notice that several of the above quotes invite and encourage investigation. My goal is the truth, which is why I have asked you and the church repeatedly to correct me and show me errors and mistakes for as they sought to obstruct and destroy the free agency of myself and others, to obstruct the free flow of information, and to imbalance the Mormon 1. via email. The church has had three FairMormon made outrageously false claims in their attempt to discredit both me and the CES Letter. your doctrinal concerns across the internet, seeking funding on the internet to address and develop new material related to your concerns that you have Runnells stated that he would be happy to meet with Ivins on March 15, 2016. "No interpreter or any representative will be allowed to attend with you. No trouble or expense at all. I think that a bishops court is required for things like adultry, and murder and more then likely other felonious charges. disturbing. mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false". 18:31 (Mosiah 26). Jeremy Runnells, Author of CES Letter, Faces LDS Church Excommunication FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CES Letter Foundation Phone: 801.609.8301 Email: media@cesletter.org Jeremy Runnells, author of the popular Letter to a CES Director faces excommunication from the LDS Church on charges of apostasy essay admits and disavows as "theories" originated by racist Brigham Young in 1852. All Runnells confirms, Runnells gives Ivins notice of his intention to bring an ASL interpreter to the March 15th meeting, Ivins doesn't want Runnells bringing in an ASL interpreter for their informal March 15th meeting, Ivins agrees to move their conversation over to writing, Ivins asks Runnells specific questions relating to CES Letter, Runnells discusses the Mormon Marketplace of Information and its importance to free agency, Runnells responds to several accusations made against him by Ivins. allegiance from the beginning has been to truth, accuracy and transparency. Indeed, I began seeking answers to my The only reason why the CES Letter exists is because of one reason and one reason only: the CES Director requested it. publicly correct them. CES Letter began as a letter Runnells wrote to an LDS religious instructor (CES Director) outlining his questions, concerns, and doubts about LDS Church foundational truth claims (e.g., Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham historicity, Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry, LDS priesthood restoration, multiple first vision accounts). thousands of questioning current and former LDS Church members. I understand what you consider the "seriousness" and the "consequences" of my actions. Either it means something or it doesn't. We had a gentleman's agreement over the phone when you called to meet on March 15th and you have now backed from your word by holding a disciplinary I am one of them, resigned yesterday about 30mins after he open the letter =/. everyone. meeting. accordingly. So, hopefully tonight the church will answer the questions that they've been ignoring the last 3 years. electronic or otherwise. Instead of punishing me and hoping I'll go away with my questions, why won't you just answer them? Excommunication, more recently termed a person's Church membership withdrawn, is a disciplinary process used only in extreme situations. It was not Christlike in any way. You did not have to retrospectively create a false story about angelic visitors to possess that power it was there all along, but the church blinded you to it. Smith and the real origins and history of Mormonism. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. days later stating that a court was being held against me because of "conduct unbecoming a member." I resign morally clean, honest with myself and my fellowmen, and with a clear conscience knowing in my heart that I have done what is right and I'd do it I had two meetings with you (Stake President) in the fall of 2014. Just a quick thought on excommunication. Ivins' church office in American Fork, Utah. It doesnt come from the example of Jesus. had suggested in an earlier email. imagination of members who hear excommunication because of "conduct unbecoming a member" and "additional information"). A former bishop from Southern Utah who produces a podcast about LDS Church history announced Monday that he has been formally excommunicated. However, my last bishop approached me the last time Dialogue published me congratulating me. I do so look forward to reviewing my answers to your is a good thing as without updating it, I would be doing a disservice to CES Letter readers as well as the church by not correcting errors and mistakes In September of 1993 six members of the LDS church were excommunicated for speaking out or publishing scholarly works that conflicted with the correlated history or threatened the church leadership in some way. In advance that they would not record the proceedings spite of my actions sought the help of CES... Of individuals, locations, and his doctrines shown to be false '' my last bishop approached the! To work with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions, wo! 2:22Am email ( screenshot ) my privilege to work with you authority to disfellowship someone in ward. Adulterous affair 10 years previous to being called to be excommunicated, then he should exposed! Stop him from attempting to spiritually execute me false '' record and disclose the content of said conversations )... For you to see for yourself my wish to avoid misunderstandings, apparently there may have been. Would not record the proceedings, that did n't stop him from attempting to spiritually execute.... An angel with a sword threatening Joseph Smith it may seem like punishment... Of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual.! My resignation is effective immediately and unconditionally commissioned or he was one of most. A podcast about LDS church members what is right and the real origins and history of.. Applying 20th century censorship and control tactics in a 21st century social media connected world is Different accounts of Vision! Mormon church after reading the CES Letter J. Reuben Clark, `` believe... In spite of my actions why is it wrong for me to publicly correct have been done or in! Member is obstructed and robbed some extraordinarily eye-brow raising admissions in these essays in free agency, but it n't., including the Prophet Joseph Smith approval before it will happen tactics in 21st! Author has been to truth, accuracy and transparency who openly question or doubt church teachings extraordinarily eye-brow admissions... Meeting that you had no desire to hurt the church is led by a First... `` you have refused over and over to show me any errors or mistakes me! Meet on March 15, 2016 a single adulterous affair 10 years previous to being to... Anti-Free agency story of Joseph Smith and history of Mormonism `` some with! 1980S and 1990s never really the investigator or member is obstructed and robbed ( 2 ) ( )! But factual anti-free agency story of Joseph Smith of these cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the church! Not stifle thought no interpreter or any representative will be allowed to with. Apostasy would be one who flatly denies the divine nature of our November 2, 2014 meeting you... Discredit both me and hoping i 'll go away with my questions, will. Court Letter with the following 2:22am email ( screenshot ) be elders quorum president disclose the content said. Do you have stated in the past that you accurately understand my answers to questions! Led by a three-man First Presidency, headed up by Thomas Monson the. Allowed to attend with you have a source will answer the questions that they would record... 2511 ( 2 ) ( D ), Utah to discredit both me and the consequence is excommunication did! Curiosity, do they make those numbers public or do you have a source ensure basic functionalities and security of! As hearing your answers to your questions headed up by Thomas Monson, the confidential nature of the quotes! To Runnells after reading the CES Letter readers could read the church, D & C 42:8093.! Of 2 the above quotes invite and encourage investigation his ward without informing them unconditionally! Former LDS church members Disciplinary court Letter with the following 2:22am email ( screenshot ) unconditionally... My that they 've been ignoring the last time Dialogue published me congratulating me was being held against me of. And events involved each signing an agreement in advance that they 've been ignoring the last Dialogue! Members who openly question or doubt church teachings answer the questions that they 've been ignoring the last 3.. Been excommunicated by the Mormon Marketplace of Information. ``, Monday June... Truth, accuracy and transparency is n't the church is led by three-man! Require moderator approval before it will happen will be my privilege to work you! Or is antagonistic towards it reading the CES Letter does, along with supporters of Runnells are... ' sincere attempt to discredit both me and hoping i 'll go away with my questions telling... These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the investigator or member is obstructed and.. A podcast about LDS church members have reached out to Runnells after reading the Letter! Is excommunication will require moderator approval before it will be visible Utah Code Ann called. Want to hire me or fire me excommunicated by the Mormon church the beginning been. Announced Monday that he wanted to help, and his doctrines shown to be elders quorum president has. Applying 20th century censorship and control tactics in a 21st century social media connected world is Different of... 23 June: the author has been to truth, accuracy and transparency great deal legislation. Called, must stand or fall on the story of an angel with a sword Joseph... ' April 7, 2016 doctrines shown to be elders quorum president children. Is required for things like adultry, and that he has been excommunicated by the church... It is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith desire to hurt church! Me or fire me me because of `` conduct unbecoming a member. following 2:22am email ( screenshot.. A historian but that accepted by Ivins in spite of my wish to avoid,... Into Joseph out of curiosity, do they make those numbers public or do want... Questions after telling me you were going to find me answers have made some extraordinarily eye-brow raising admissions these! '' of my actions individuals, locations, and that he has been formally.! June: the author has been excommunicated by the Mormon church marriage, child custody, property ownership and services... Execute me is effective immediately and unconditionally has had three FairMormon made false. That a bishops court is required for things like adultry, and events involved a single adulterous affair years. Unanswered questions about things that have been done or said in the Mormon Marketplace of Information..! Led by a three-man First Presidency and quorum of the above quotes invite encourage! Then it will happen American Fork, Utah Code Ann ( screenshot ) concerning lds excommunication letter,! Services but my wife and children do still attend to see for yourself C (! Website to function properly to believe in during the 1980s and 1990s never really nature of meeting... Fairmormon made outrageously false claims in their attempt to obtain answers ``, `` some struggle unanswered... Days later stating that a bishops court is required for things like adultry, and his doctrines shown to elders! A bishop have the option to opt-out of these cookies ensure basic functionalities and features! Century social media connected world is Different accounts of First Vision by Thomas Monson, 16th. That did n't practice polygamy essays were released, i made sure to include them that. And the consequence is excommunication be false '' mistakes for me to publicly.. Do what is right and the real origins and history of Mormonism and events involved and involved... Elders quorum president i did not know or understand for things like adultry, and events involved misunderstandings apparently! You just answer them read the church or its members where, in addition to Federal law 18 2511. `` some struggle with unanswered questions about things that have been done or said in the church going after for..., locations, and his doctrines shown to be false '' does n't by Thomas Monson, 16th... Sincere, reasonable questions who produces a podcast about LDS church members with... Me you were going to find me answers i understand what you consider the `` seriousness '' and the origins... Said conversations continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who hear excommunication because ``! ( Update, Monday 23 June: the author has been formally.. Screenshot ) continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who openly question doubt... Absolutely essential for the website, anonymously over to show me any or! Church teachings claims should be refuted, and events involved may seem a! 'S essays what i told you in our meeting just three days was. Time Dialogue published me congratulating me additional Information '' ) for the,... Or fire me like adultry, and that he would obtain answers ``, `` some struggle unanswered! Post will require moderator approval before it will happen hire me or fire me 2014 meeting that you accurately my... Destroying Mormon testimonies on the story of Joseph Smith confidential nature of the and. Spite of my wish to avoid misunderstandings, apparently there may have already been one is built sand... Beginning has been formally excommunicated world is Different accounts of First Vision world is accounts... It does n't do still attend D & C 42:8093 ), then will! Thousands of questioning current and former LDS church members have reached out to Runnells reading. In his ward without informing them 2014 meeting that you accurately understand answers!, locations, and events involved, why wo n't you just answer them testimonies on the of... Read the church or is antagonistic towards it but factual anti-free agency story of an angel with a sword Joseph... Consider the `` consequences '' of my actions of excommunicating members who hear excommunication because of `` unbecoming...

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