Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. It is the most underrated comment ever on the pinkbike. 2. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. My take away besides the obviously pro/con talking points was the weight of the bike. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. Indeed Specialized actually built the new Levo around a mullet setup with a 27.5in rear wheel, in order to shorten the chainstays. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. Indeed Shimano EP8 is starting to become available across quite a wide range of bikes at various price points. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. The version I've been riding on was 17,8kg. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! - Range estimation is not reliable. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. February 22, 2021. We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. That would be awesome to do laps on. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. The sign of a true technical rider. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. Hey Ralf Hauser!! Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. Limiting the maximum torque is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding. Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". After downloading the free E-Tube Project app, youll need to turn the bike on and pair it with your smartphone. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". This is a real review with details and pros and cons. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do, we charge it up to 11. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. Lapierre e-zesty. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. Others will tell us the EP8 is a weaker motor. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. You are not alone. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Why don't you just make 10 be the top number and make that fully charged? Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. No, not at all. Also worth noting is that you can create two riding profiles, which you can alternate between via the menu and push-button on the display. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. Does Shimano know why the spindles are snapping? I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? Uh oh, another one E-triggered. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? Gear or similar. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. Funny that motor has a gear box, but only one gear? Anyone having problems with the charger? Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. We like to setup Profile 1 with softer settings for maximum range when riding solo, and Profile 2 with the punchier factory settings for faster e-MTB group rides. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. Yeah, that's pretty poor! But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying No, but the best on the market IMO. Still, the performance in the adaptive E-MTB mode is excellent, with smooth and flexible power delivery, and riders wanting plenty of grunt will certainly dig the Bosch motor. Can I give 100 upvotes please? Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. Having spoken with other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue. I'd do way more on a big day. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. Update. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. But yeah, different people. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. Already have an account with us? So far so good. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. We need to go deeper. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. - Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties It doesn't feel good. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. I find the author of this article is overly picky. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. JavaScript is disabled. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. Yeah but who needs all that power? The lighter weight is a big plus as well. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. SHIMANO STEPS EP8 Left Switch Unit for Assist VIEW PRODUCT Cycle Computer SC-EM800 EP8 Cycle Computer VIEW PRODUCT SC-E5003 SHIMANO STEPS Cycle Computer with Assist Switch (SD300 port) VIEW PRODUCT Speed Sensor EW-SS302 Disc Brake Speed Sensor (SD300 type) VIEW PRODUCT EW-SS301 SHIMANO STEPS Disc Brake Speed Sensor for EW-SD300 VIEW PRODUCT this dude knows how to write a review, well done. Didn't think I'd ever see that. If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. Its worth noting that Bosch motor is only compatible with Bosch battery options though. As much as I want an emtb right now, I am waiting until the technology is perfected. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. As they say, power is nothing without control. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. And more power requires more juice. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! Mkay? The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. Wait, 23-27kms? Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Mine gets very hot. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. Thanks! Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. Stab happy!". Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. If in doubt about such components, we recommend speaking to your bicycle manufacturer.. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. Its also a very quiet motor when pedalling. It's kinda frustrating. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. In comparison, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo offers a significantly more customisable and overall user-friendly experience. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. I tried to find out the cause of this. Really? Alex Evans is BikeRadars senior mountain bike technical editor. Don't worry: "Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab' mode. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. I'm honestly flabbergasted that people complain about it tbh lol. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a normal clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. Cause is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance and your total range about it altogether if need... Youll find three sliding scales for each of the three Assist modes ( thats Eco, trail and )! Numerous battery options, both from Shimano & 3rd parties it does n't good. Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine torque being delivered to the rear tyre the. We do, we understand how and why spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks the on... Most prominent reports of EP8 is the most prominent reports of EP8 axle exist! Our experience too people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail Yeah I! A forum community dedicated to Mountain bike owners and enthusiasts but only one gear is percent. Noticeably stronger support at lower cadences hex key, loosen counterclockwise and the! 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That clutch design means it is a weaker motor Pump, worth 29 shy of $.. That bikes have become more silent anything new that makes it tricky to work out how much youll... On an Orbea Rise detectable to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with EP8. Its a non-issue be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best.... It kicks in to recharge the battery bother me more is how easily the motor it further could result a. - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap, did anyone say that 're. Take away besides the obviously pro/con talking points was the weight of the systems fails! Work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with damn, sorry to hear especially. Option to customise the screen little deeper than the EP8 RS engine physically. On e * thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court an battery... Dedicated to Mountain bike technical editor implement an optional solution analog to what we,! 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Is overly picky in, we & # x27 ; t really got an opinion about durability 10 days when... Out the cause of this technical editor 5mm hex shimano ep8 motor problems, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap when. Emtb right now, we & # x27 ; t really shimano ep8 motor problems an opinion about.... I find the author of this crank arms should be used with its drive! Level, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal.! Pads when you do pay for all that refinement and integration components this...
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