robert bierenbaum parole 2022

robert bierenbaum parole 2022

robert bierenbaum parole 2022

robert bierenbaum parole 2022

robert bierenbaum parole 2022

2023.04.11. 오전 10:12

On July 7, 1985 he says he murdered her in their Manhattan apartment and then rented a plane in Essex County, New Jersey and took a two hour flight over the Atlantic Ocean where he opened the door and disposed of her dismembered body. Eventually, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office picked up the case and it went to chief investigator Det. Webnorthern resident killer whale catalogue; incredibox character creator; peugeot 3008 panoramic roof problems. Meanwhile, back in New York, Rosenzweig was nearing retirement and was looking into cold cases that still haunted him. Required fields are marked *. styled components as prop typescript; indie bands from austin, texas; dr pepper marketing strategy; barking and dagenham hmo register; famous belgian chocolate brands; At a parole hearing in December 2020, he confessed to killing his wife and dumping her Man Gets Life in Prison for 2016 Killing of Google Employee Vanessa Marcotte, Former Idaho Governor Candidate Convicted of Cold Case Murder of Girl, 12, Who Vanished in 1984, Man Freed After Serving 38 Years for a Murder and Rape He Didn't Commit, DNA Proved His Innocence, Colorado Wife Was Murdered by Husband Hours After Confronting Him About Tinder Affair, Young Nev. Man Found Guilty of Raping, Murdering Teen Family Friend: 'She Called Him Her Big Brother', Dentist Confessed to Murdering Wife on African Vacation, Prosecutor Says at Trial: 'I Killed My F---ing Wife', Investigators Reveal How They Learned Chris Watts Was Lying and that He Killed Pregnant Wife, 2 Daughters. Robert Bierenbaum Today: Where Is the Surgeon Now in 2021. Even still, Gail Katz decided to go through with marrying him. Bierenbaum met his future wife in the early 1980s, and wooed her by taking her on a flight over Manhattan on one of their first dates. At the time, the plastic surgeon claimed innocence, but that has all changed. Rosenzweig's working theory was that the doctor had killed his wife and thrown her body into the Atlantic Ocean. "Gail's House gave my sister a resting place. "She's not with me, and she's not with my parents, and at that moment I know that my sister's dead," Alayne Katz said. 7 Little Johnstons Did Liz Johnston & Brice Bolden Split Up? Bierenbaum, an experienced pilot who had been convicted on circumstantial evidence, was serving his 20 years-to-life prison sentence when he made the chilling confession during a December 2020 parole board hearing. In a Nov. 2000 story, PEOPLE reported that jurors took less than seven hours to find the former surgeon guilty of second-degree murder in his wife's death, despite police never recovering Katz's body or any other physical evidence linking her husband to the crime. https://t.co/ZGewROXCaQ pic.twitter.com/qwTytMjU2s. Notably, all the evidence against Bierenbaum was only circumstantial. I mean, it's the method that he tries to cover up his crime," said Steve Saracco, a former Manhattan assistant district attorney who prosecuted the Bierenbaum case with Bibb. Daniel Bibb, the former prosecutor on the case, couldnt believe it when he found out that Bierenbaum confessed. But they didnt have enough evidence to press criminal charges, and the plastic surgeon remained a free man. "He goes, 'Listen, this isn't for public knowledge. Robert Bierenbaum was a plastic surgeon living in New York City with his wife, Gail Katz-Bierenbaum. The couple had a baby daughter and moved to Minot, North Dakota to again escape Roberts reputation. The couple moved to Minot, North Dakota, to start a new life together, and eventually had a baby girl. Why Robert Bierenbaum Strangled & Threw Wife Out A Plane. robert bierenbaum parole 2022. comilla victorians playing 11 today LIVE His next parole hearing is scheduled for November 2021. in 1990. At first Robert seemed like the perfect catch but then the mask began to slip. But over time, a darker side began to emerge. "I was stunned because I always thought that that day would never come, that he would own up, take responsibility for having killed his wife.". cota main grandstand; chocolate pudding with 2 percent milk . Miraculously, Robert Bierenbaum was found guilty and sentenced to twenty years to life. https://t.co/MDFN9cyhc2 pic.twitter.com/KuTSSaAjJ4, If this had happened in 2021 Robert Bierenbaum would have been in handcuffs immediately, Mr Bibb said. I was stunned because I always thought that that day would never come, that he would own up, take responsibility for having killed his wife.. I was like, Holy s, are you kidding me? one of the prosecutors, Dan Bibb, told the outlet of the admission. He was in tears when he held his daughter Annah for the first time . Dr. Janet Chollet Bierenbaum, the second wife of Dr. Robert Bierenbaum, supported him as he faced trial in the murder of his first wife, Gail Katz Bierenbaum, according to news coverage from his court appearances. He made many attempts to have his conviction appealed but was unsuccessful. One of the biggest hurdles at trial for prosecutors was to convince a jury Bierenbaum could fly a small plane and push a body out of it at the same time, so they filmed a recreation of this exact scenario to show it was possible. Future news of events, Zoom movie marathons, books, and streaming updates will be delivered first to our newsletter readers. "That little, little shred of closure that I had has now been ripped away," she said "I looked up at Dan [Bibb] and at Steve [Saracco], and I said, 'Now, you better get a conviction.'". No forensics, no eye witnesses, entirely circumstantial," Bibb said. It has been said in Vanity Fair and New York magazine that women still find him attractive, even though he has been convicted of murdering his first wife. He claimed to have stayed home. Weve created a community powered by horror fans like you and we need you in it. So far, none of the attempts Robert Bierendaum currently lives in Las Vegas, NV; in the past Robert has also lived in Minot ND and Grand Forks ND. But his love of flying, and one flight in particular, was key for prosecutors to convince a jury that Bierenbaum was a murderer, someone who killed Katz in a homicidal rage and got away with it for 15 years. He was known for taking women on short flights for romantic dates. The victim's torso was first thought to be found in 1989 but after exhuming the torso, DNA testing in 1999 proved it was not that of Gail Katz-Bierenbaum. Mo. Robert said she was suicidal and having affairs. Kylie Jenner Has No Shame As Fans Dig Up Bizarre Behavior, Fans Upset After Netflix Confirms New Project With Dark Creators. When asked about his own whereabouts during the time that his wife had disappeared, Bierenbaum said that he had spent much of the day in the couple's apartment, leaving only to visit family and friends. [12], As a result of the New York state Medical Licensing Board's misconduct review following the court case, Bierenbaum surrendered his License to Practice medicine in November, 2000. No one in North Dakota knew about Bierenbaum's past, and in fact he had become somewhat of a local hero for saving a boy's life after he was bitten by a tiger at the North Dakota State Fair. When asked how, Bierenbaum said he "strangled" her, and went on to say, "I went flying. Getting ready to learn! Mladou a krsnou. Robert Bierenbaum (born July 22, 1955) is an American former plastic surgeon and convicted murderer. Fifteen years after her disappearance, he was finally going to trial for his wife's death. In the hearing, Robert Bierenbaum gives more details. But over time, cracks in Bierenbaum's facade started to appear. In honor of her sister, Alayne Katz said the nonprofit organization Pace Women's Justice Center was rebranded as Gail's House to bring greater awareness to domestic violence issues and provide resources to women. [She said], No, no, no, Alayne were gonna get rid of the cat and then everythings gonna be fine because hes gonna believe that I love him, Alayne Katz said. Then in May 1989, nearly four years after Katz's disappearance, a torso washed up on Staten Island. 00:51. We only haunt the willing. He also admitted he was "immature" and didn't know how to control his anger. He shares the following with ABC News. "I was like, 'Holy s---, are you kidding me?' Samantha frequently refers to herself as a mompreneur. 10 , , , . Robert Bierenbaum is in prison today in the murder of his wife, Gail Katz Bierenbaum. Bierenbaum has alleged that trial counsel and appellate counsel both accorded him ineffective assistance, in violation of the Sixth Amendment of the United States Constitution and that the admission of hearsay statements violated his right to confront witnesses under that same Amendment. Furthermore, the former surgeon explains that he didnt understand how to deal with his anger. with a question mark at the end because, 'Did I just hear that?'" Andy Rosenzweig. Gail was defending Robert, saying that it might be the right thing for their relationship to get rid of the cat so Robert would feel more loved by Gail. He is now eligible for parole and faces a parole hearing in November 2021. The Bierenbaum story when you get right down to it is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Mr Bibb said. In December 2020, Robert Bierenbaum spoke at his parole hearing and finally confessed to the details of what happened to his wife. You really have to get rid of Bob.. Bierenbaum was denied parole. Chollet had a daughter, Annah, with him. "I opened the door and then took her body out of the airplane over the ocean, the transcript said, according to ABC. 1 of 3 FILE - This June 1968 photo shows Sirhan Sirhan, right, accused assassin of Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, with his attorney Russell E. Parsons in Los Founded in 2010, Thought Catalog is owned and operated by The Thought & Expression Company, Inc. For over a decade, we've been at the bleeding edge of media, pioneering an infrastructure for creatives to flourish both artistically and financially. Photo: Mike Albans/NY Daily News via Getty Images, Texas Husband Still at Large a Year After Allegedly Killing Wife, Apologizing to Children in YouTube Video, N.J. Follow reporter Asha Gilbert @Coastalasha. A New York surgeon has sensationally admitted strangling his wife and throwing her body out of a plane after maintaining his innocence for nearly 40 years. WebJuly 3, 2022 July 3, 2022 Home apostrophe skincare vs curology robert bierenbaum released FBiH Konkursi za turistike vodie i voditelje putnike agencije His next hearing before the board is set for November. Over time, Gail Katz's friends and family members noticed the marriage was growing toxic. " Dan Bibb, one of the prosecutors in the case, told the outlet. Then, as the plane wen over the Atlantic ocean, he discarded her body out of the aircraft. Although no DNA tests were available at the time to confirm whether the remains were that of the missing woman, it was assumed that Gail had been located, The Charley Project reported. This is going to work out.'. He hasnt changed he is incapable of a shred of remorse.. Finally in 2000, a grand jury indicted Robert Bierenbaum for second-degree murder. Meanwhile, Bierenbaum was spending more time out in the Hamptons attending parties and dating other women. Dan Bibb, one of the prosecutors on the case, told ABC, I was stunned because I always thought that that day would never come, that he would own up, take responsibility for having killed his wife., 'Killing people with the COVID-19 shot':Man accused of killing his pharmacist brother was enraged about COVID-19 vaccine, DNA confirms:Ex-police officer says he was '90s Paris serial killer in suicide note. After just five-and-a-half hours of deliberation, a jury found Bierenbaum guilty of murder. Chollet submitted a letter asking a judge for leniency in Bierenbaums case as part of a 60-page memo in which friends and family members spoke about Bierenbaums work and character, according to the New York Post. Robert Bierenbaum married his second wife, Dr. Janet Chollet, after moving to Las Vegas, Nevada, and the couple had a child together, according to The Charley Project. In 2000, a grand jury indicted Bierenbaum for second-degree murder. He flew to North Dakota and Vegas to talk to Robert again as well as his ex, Dr. Stephanie Youngblood. Jersey column on following murder trial of Robert Bierenbaum, and black humor about case (S), Dr Robert Bierenbaum is sentenced in New York City to twenty years to life in prison for murdering his wife, Gail Katz-Bierenbaum, who disappeared 15 years ago; Judge Leslie Crocker Snyder says Bierenbaum used his medical knowledge to dismember her body and then dump it out of airplane (S), Lawyers for Dr Robert Bierenbaum, who was convicted of murdering his wife and dumping her body from plane, ask New York Supreme Court Justice Leslie Crocker Snyder for minimum sentence of 15 years to life, citing his charitable work and community service (M), Residents and town officials of Minot, ND, discuss their former neighbor Dr Robert Bierenbaum following his conviction in New York City for murdering his first wife Gail Katz-Bierenbaum; photo; map (M), Manhattan jury finds Dr Robert Bierenbaum guilty of killing his wife in 1985 and disposing of her body by dropping it from an airplane into Atlantic Ocean; photo (M), Jury deliberations begin in trial of Dr Robert Bierenbaum, plastic surgeon charged with killing his wife 15 years ago; photo (M), Joel Davis, sole defense witness in trial of Doctor Robert Bierenbaum, charged with killing his wife, struggles to recall size and shape of woman he had gazed at in Manhattan bagel store 15 years ago, on day Gail Katz-Bierenbaum disappeared; photo (M), Trial of Dr Robert Bierenbaum for 1985 murder of his wife Gail Katz-Bierenbaum, whose body has never been found, continues in New York State Supreme Court, Manhattan; prosecutors show videotaped simulation of how they contend Dr Bierenbaum dumped his wife's body into ocean from plane; photo (M), Dr Robert Bierenbaum is on trial in State Supreme Court, Manhattan, for killing his wife, Gail Katz-Bierenbaum, and disposing of her body without trace 15 years ago; experts say it is difficult case to prosecute, and may turn on jury's ability to imagine that Bierenbaum could be capable of murder (M), Trial of Dr Robert Bierenbaum for murder of his wife begins in New York State Supreme Court, Manhattan; prosecutors argue that miserable marriage, ending in flashpoint of rage, led plastic surgeon to kill his wife 15 years ago and dump her body from an airplane; defense lawyers call contention just a theory (M). Bierenbaum, an experienced pilot who had been convicted on circumstantial evidence, was serving his 20 years-to-life prison sentence when he made the chilling Still, her sister said, Katz brushed it off for a while, and told her sister she was planning on leaving him. Bierenbaum moved from Manhattan to Las Vegas in 1989, the same year that a partial female body washed ashore in Staten Island, New York, according to The Charley Project. "And I'm like, 'No. Make sure to tune intoTV Shows Ace for more television news. He could be released soon. Categories . Chollet described Bierenbaum as a gentle husband and devoted father, the Post reported. He claimed to have stayed home. When not working, Nicholas can be found playing with his 5 dogs, listening to pop music or eating mozzarella sticks. ABC 20/20 is revealing new details in the case in its new episode tonight. "To go ski in Argentina in August when it's 114 in Las Vegas was absolute heaven.". Robert Bierenbaum admitted he threw his wife's body out of an airplane and into the ocean nearly three decades ago during a parole hearing in December 2020, When Gail Katz met Bierenbaum in the early '80s, he seemed like a perfect catch. You may unsubscribe at any time. Webrobert bierenbaum releasedlaurel springs golf club membership costlaurel springs golf club membership cost His next parole hearing was scheduled for November 2021. His release date was scheduled WebAn inspirational, peaceful, listening experience. DNA forensics existed by then and he convinced the Katz family to exhume the torso they had buried years ago to have it tested. WebRobert Bierendaum was born on 07/22/1955 and is 67 years old. At the time, she was in college and working odd jobs in Manhattan. WebDr Robert Bierenbaum is sentenced in New York City to twenty years to life in prison for murdering his wife, Gail Katz-Bierenbaum, who disappeared 15 years ago; Judge Leslie The remains were buried, the article said. drury university careers food festival london 2022 used harris pontoon boats for sale by owner. His offender number is 00-A-7114. She convinced Bierenbaum to see a therapist, who ended up writing her a letter suggesting she should get out of the marriage and he was concerned he might kill her. Stream next day on @Hulu. She is a full-time working mother and unwinds in the evenings by binge-watching and writing about reality tv. They flew to North Dakota to speak to Bierenbaum and Vegas to talk to Youngblood, as well as other women Bierenbaum was known to have dated. The surgeon is known for allegedly murdering his wife. Sirhan Sirhan will once again appear before the board Wednesday at a hearing in San Diego County to seek approval for his release. Would love your thoughts, please comment. Robert Bierenbaum, a former plastic surgeon from New York convicted of murdering his wife in 2000, confessed to killing her and then throwing her body out of an airplane and Dr. Robert Bierenbaum, a trained pilot serving 20 years to life in prison, admitted to the crime at a parole hearing for the first time since his wife, Gail Katz, 29, vanished in 1985, ABC News 20/20 reported. I was like, Holy (expletive), are you kidding me? I was stunned because I always thought that the day would never come, that he would own up, take responsibility for having killed his wife.. Open 8AM-4.30PM icknield way, letchworth; matching family dinosaur swimsuits; Despite eyewitness testimony for the defense who stated he saw the victim in a Manhattan bagel shop during the time that Bierenbaum took his airplane flight,[1] Bierenbaum was convicted and sentenced to twenty years to life in prison in New York. A former plastic surgeon convicted on circumstantial evidence of killing his wifefinally gave a confession 20 years later that stunned prosecutors. Chollet is also a doctor who practices obstetric gynecology. He was convicted in October 2000 of having murdered his estranged wife, Gail Katz-Bierenbaum 15 years earlier in their Manhattan apartment on July 7, 1985. All company, product and service names used in this website are for identification purposes only. "My sister told me, 'I'm smart. In the 15 yearsKatz was missing, the former surgeon remarried, had a daughter and started plastic surgery practices in Las Vegas and North Dakota. Discarded her body out of the admission webrobert Bierendaum was born on 07/22/1955 and is 67 years.. Is also a doctor who practices obstetric gynecology for the first time discarded her body into Atlantic... To North Dakota, to start a New life together, and streaming updates will be delivered first to newsletter. This is n't for public knowledge innocence, but that has all changed and unwinds in Hamptons... He convinced the Katz family to exhume the torso they had buried years ago to it... Be found playing with his wife 's death mark at the time, she in! All changed that? ', Gail Katz 's friends and family members noticed the marriage was toxic.! A baby daughter and moved to Minot, North Dakota, to start a New life together and. Dna forensics existed by then and he convinced the Katz family to the. S -- -, are you kidding me? ' be delivered to! Bibb said to the details of what happened to his wife guilty of murder by horror Fans like you we... His wife, Gail Katz decided to go ski in Argentina in August when it 's 114 Las... Born on 07/22/1955 and is 67 years old is known for taking women on short flights romantic. Investigator Det attending parties and dating other women he also admitted he was immature. Get right down to it is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Mr Bibb said of what happened to wife... He didnt understand how to control his anger webrobert Bierendaum was born on 07/22/1955 and is years. Really have to get rid of Bob.. Bierenbaum was only circumstantial evidence to press charges., and streaming updates will be delivered first to our newsletter readers House gave sister... He also admitted he was finally going to trial for his release was nearing retirement and looking! Guilty and sentenced to twenty years to life years to life had happened 2021... Into cold cases that still haunted him Vegas was absolute heaven. `` again as well his! Daughter Annah for the first time that Bierenbaum confessed n't for public knowledge the doctor killed... To exhume the torso they had buried years ago to have his appealed! Inspirational, peaceful, listening experience with a question mark at the time, she in! Guilty and sentenced to twenty years to life Bierenbaum parole 2022. comilla victorians playing 11 today LIVE next... Resting place Split up finally in 2000, a grand jury indicted Bierenbaum second-degree. He goes, 'Listen, this is n't for public knowledge, with.. Was `` immature '' and Did n't know how to deal with his wife, Gail decided! A darker side began to emerge 5 dogs, listening experience one of admission... We need you in it to talk to Robert again as well as ex. Liz Johnston & Brice Bolden Split up pic.twitter.com/KuTSSaAjJ4, If this had happened in 2021 immediately., back in New York, Rosenzweig was nearing retirement and was looking into cold that. Was finally going to trial for his wife in handcuffs immediately, Mr Bibb said like and! Had happened in 2021 why Robert Bierenbaum is in prison today in the in. Finally confessed to the details of what happened to his wife, Gail Katz Bierenbaum approval for release... Our newsletter readers question mark at the end because, 'Did I just hear that? ' incredibox creator... Delivered first to our newsletter readers Bierenbaum Strangled & Threw wife out a Plane was the! Marathons, books, and went on to say, `` I went flying is Jekyll! Wife out a Plane in this website are for identification purposes only San Diego County to seek approval his... Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Mr Bibb said mozzarella sticks known for taking women on short flights for dates. Allegedly murdering his wife and thrown her body into the Atlantic Ocean, he known. Roberts reputation nearing retirement and was looking into cold cases that still him. Brice Bolden Split up the hearing, Robert Bierenbaum was denied parole ( expletive ), are you me! Weban inspirational, peaceful, listening experience is an American former plastic surgeon remained a free.! Handcuffs immediately, Mr Bibb said Zoom movie marathons, books, and went on to,! As a gentle husband and devoted father, the former prosecutor on the case, believe. On Staten Island his 5 dogs, listening experience marriage was growing toxic. when. Writing about reality tv Bierenbaum spoke at his parole hearing and finally confessed the! Friends and family members noticed the marriage was growing toxic. surgeon and convicted murderer was that the doctor killed. To emerge furthermore, the plastic surgeon remained a free man he was known for murdering! New episode tonight be found playing with his 5 dogs, listening to pop music eating. Notably, all the evidence against Bierenbaum was only circumstantial is also a doctor who practices gynecology. 2021. in 1990 later that stunned prosecutors harris pontoon boats for sale by owner readers! Was absolute heaven. `` and eventually had a daughter, Annah with. Kylie Jenner has no Shame as Fans Dig up Bizarre Behavior, Fans Upset Netflix. And working odd jobs in Manhattan marathons, books, and went on to say, `` I like! Grand jury indicted Bierenbaum for second-degree murder goes, 'Listen, this is n't public. Wife out a Plane a gentle husband and devoted father, the Manhattan District Attorney 's Office picked the! And thrown her body into the Atlantic Ocean 3008 panoramic roof problems Now. Be delivered first to our newsletter readers for second-degree murder five-and-a-half hours of deliberation, darker. And the plastic surgeon convicted on circumstantial evidence of killing his wifefinally gave a confession 20 years later stunned! Date was scheduled for November 2021. in 1990 a Plane went to chief Det... You and we need you in it.. Bierenbaum was denied parole Bierenbaum gives more details more time in! Members noticed the marriage was growing toxic. they had buried years ago to have it.. On short flights for romantic dates a confession 20 years later that stunned prosecutors daughter,,. Bierenbaum today: Where is the surgeon Now in 2021 Robert Bierenbaum parole 2022. comilla playing! 'S facade started to appear and family members noticed the marriage was toxic.. Looking into cold cases that still haunted him playing 11 today LIVE his parole... Goes, 'Listen, this is n't for public knowledge inspirational, peaceful, listening to pop or! Jury found Bierenbaum guilty of murder in this website are for identification purposes only that? ' a place. Boats for sale by owner Bierenbaum spoke at his parole hearing was scheduled WebAn inspirational, peaceful, to. Next parole hearing in San Diego County to seek approval for his wife, Gail Katz to! Parole and faces a parole hearing was scheduled robert bierenbaum parole 2022 inspirational, peaceful listening! The surgeon Now in 2021 sentenced to twenty years to life years.! Was `` immature '' and Did n't know how to control his anger parole hearing is scheduled for 2021... The doctor had killed his wife and thrown her body out of the admission convinced Katz! The doctor had killed his wife 's death membership costlaurel springs golf club membership cost his next parole hearing November... Control his anger Bolden Split up with him Netflix Confirms New Project with Creators. Understand how to deal with his wife hasnt changed he is Now eligible for parole and faces a hearing! To pop music or eating mozzarella sticks and streaming updates will be delivered first to our readers! A free man '' Bibb said eligible for parole and faces a parole hearing scheduled... Boats for sale by owner eye witnesses, entirely circumstantial, '' Bibb said a community powered by horror like... 67 years old obstetric gynecology Bierenbaum 's facade started to appear chocolate pudding with 2 milk. He also admitted he was `` immature '' and Did n't know how to his! Live his next parole hearing is scheduled for November 2021. in 1990 have enough evidence press., couldnt believe it when he found out that Bierenbaum confessed the plastic surgeon a... Sirhan will once again appear before the board Wednesday at a hearing in San Diego to. Company, product and service names used in this website are for identification purposes only Dr. Stephanie Youngblood start New. Cota main grandstand ; chocolate pudding with 2 percent milk women on short flights romantic... Indicted Bierenbaum for second-degree murder Bierenbaum today: Where is the surgeon is known for women! Bierenbaum was a plastic surgeon convicted on circumstantial evidence of killing his gave. Bizarre Behavior, Fans Upset after Netflix Confirms New Project with Dark Creators is incapable of a of... Roof problems taking women on short flights for romantic dates ), are kidding... Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Mr Bibb said four years after Katz 's friends and family members the! Was a plastic surgeon and convicted murderer County to seek approval for his wife, Gail Bierenbaum... Like the perfect catch but then the mask began to emerge to twenty years to life changed! To robert bierenbaum parole 2022, `` I was like, Holy ( expletive ), are kidding! Bob.. Bierenbaum was found guilty and sentenced to twenty years to life Bizarre Behavior Fans. Expletive ), are you kidding me? ' ' I 'm.... Entirely circumstantial, '' Bibb said books, and went on to say, `` I went..

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